Torrey Smith, Co-Founding father of Endiatx, is altering the fame endoscopies have for being uncomfortable. At Endiatx, they’re creating a pill-sized robotic that you simply swallow, which can then livestream your digestive system for a health care provider to view. Our interviewer Abate dives in.
Torrey Smith
Torrey Smith is the Co-Founder & CEO of Endiatx, a medical robotics firm that manufactures tiny robotic capsules able to lively motion contained in the human abdomen with management over web protocol. Previous to launching Endiatx, he developed medical gadgets within the areas of endometrial ablation, atherectomy, therapeutic hypothermia, sleep apnea, and vascular closure.
An aerospace engineer by coaching, he takes a eager curiosity within the deep tech sector and is a proud mentor of up-and-coming founders on the Founder Institute. He’s additionally the principal founding father of the worldwide arts collective often known as Sextant, and he has had his artwork featured within the Smithsonian.
Hyperlinks
transcript
Abate De Mey: Welcome to the robo hub podcast. Tremendous excited to have you ever on right here. So Torrey , might you introduce your self a bit of bit?
Torrey Smith: Positive, completely. Properly, you already know, I initially initially studied aerospace engineering as a result of my purpose was to construct the way forward for science fiction that I had examine as a child.
I had some relations you already know, come down with some gnarly well being situations. I misplaced an aunt to a mind most cancers. I grew to become very passionate in regards to the world of medical gadgets and possibly extra importantly, simply well being and know-how and the way we will merge these. Proper. As a result of I, I feel for those who requested a 14 yr outdated child who reads science fiction, what they suppose the way forward for healthcare appears to be like like, they might in all probability say, oh, it’s going to be like nano robots.
That might go in like a military of tiny machines and kill any tumor. Proper. Okay. After which for those who ask a health care provider, Hey, I’ve bought a glioblastoma. What’s my prognosis. The physician’s going to say, nicely, we’re going to chop an incision over right here. We’re going to peel your face right down to your jaw. I’m going to chop out a bit of your cranium and put it in a metal dish.
Then I’m going to go in and do my finest to take away a few of this mind tumor. And we’re going to place you again collectively. We’re going to place you on medication. You understand, we’ll put you on chemo and you already know, in six to 9 months, you’re going to be lifeless. So get your affairs. Proper. That’s that’s like the usual of take care of glioblastoma.
And my query is easy. The query is what if proper? What if we might do mind surgical procedure from a robotic platform? What if that robotic platform could possibly be bodily very small? You understand, the best way I envision it possibly rice display screen dimension, you already know, I might like to go molecular degree, however Hey, I’m a knucklehead engineer, you already know, I’m pondering by way of objects, I can in all probability work on myself.
So with Endiatx our main mission is to indicate the world which you could ship tiny robots into the human physique to do a job, any job. And we’re going to begin that journey humble. And we’re going to begin that journey the place we will truly make one thing actual. And, you already know, let me present you what my model of tiny is.
Proper. You understand that that is what I name PillBot and Pillbot. It’s principally a bit of swimming robotic that makes use of 4 little thrusters. We simply use the identical motors you’ll discover in a mobile phone vibrator. We simply take the weights off and put propellers on them. And the purpose with pillbox is simply to create a shifting eyeball within the human abdomen.
And from there, simply see how small we will get it and see if we will put surgical instruments on it. Proper. Nevertheless it’s, you already know, it’s essential to have a tangible product in thoughts. Imagine me, like, we began very humbly with this, with this journey. Proper. You understand, we simply began constructing, utilizing raspberry PI.
Proper. You understand, the fundamental digital constructing blocks that almost any child has entry to that helped us to lift a bit of bit of cash. And, and we began going to customized electronics and, you already know, actually stepping out into our personal. You possibly can see the JB Weldon Bebe’s right here. Proper. I didn’t increase any cash with it.
However we stored pushing and we stored innovating and we bought right down to in regards to the thumb dimension and, you already know, we began to get extra funding pursuits from the angel group at this level. And docs started to take a bit of bit extra curiosity in us. And, you already know, as of in the present day, you already know, I’ve, I’ve personally swallowed 14 of those robots.
I haven’t died but. We, we’ll swallow them and drive them round our stomachs with Xbox controllers. And it’s truly lots of enjoyable,
Abate De Mey: how way back did this journey begin?
Torrey Smith: Properly, we included in March of 2019 and the journey actually started, I’d say shut to love October of 2018.
When you already know, I, for those who requested me what I’m now, I might humbly say like, I’m a, I’m a lowercase CEO, proper? We’ve included an organization we’ve raised some cash. We’ve executed some good with our robots. So that you have been very enthusiastic about it, however I’m, I’m a lowercase CEO. I’m, I’m a CEO. Who’s hoping to do one thing large.
However for those who have been to ask me who I used to be in October of 2018, I might have mentioned I’m a depressed getting old, senior, R and D engineer who’s exhausted with making different folks’s mediocre goals come true. And. The older I bought, the extra, I simply began to really feel just like the jaws of destiny have been closing on me. Proper? Like my alternative to make some type of a contribution on this world was beginning to diminish.
After which I noticed this focused advert on Fb that mentioned apply, pitcher thought at no cost on the founder Institute. And so I actually felt like, you already know what, even when I’m ashamed of how outdated I’m or ashamed that I’m not a PhD. Even when I’m afraid that individuals would possibly choose me or inform me this concept of silly, I actually didn’t have something to lose.
So I clicked on that advert. I went and I practiced fish in my firm and I bought slaughtered.
Abate De Mey: Was this the primary thought that you simply pitched?
Torrey Smith: Yeah, yeah. This, this can be a, this primary firm that, you already know, I might name myself a co-founder on. I’ve been that early worker in earlier corporations, which I used to be very pleased with, however that is the primary firm that I did.
Let’s put it that manner. However the founder Institute was a pivotal expertise in my life. It really helped me to tear the bandaid off. It helped me to comprehend that regardless that I usually really feel crushed by imposter syndrome, that I didn’t have to really feel like I couldn’t attempt to do one thing large. And I assume the factor that I’m, I’m actually grateful for is that they confirmed me how you can get my pals collectively and launch an organization.
You understand, as of in the present day, we, you already know, we’ve, we’ve raised simply over 1,000,000 {dollars} and put 23 of those robots for our personal our bodies. And, and truly have a number of the finest docs on the planet now engaged on this crew. So very excited, however the journey started with truly, you already know, the journey started with a pocket book sketch.
Like I can present it proper right here. That is you already know, that is October 18th, 2018, and my pals and I began drawing robots. We have been pondering corkscrews or creepy crawlies or tank treads or inch worms, you already know, we have been agnostic. We simply needed to in any manner potential, make this factor occur, you already know, little, little legs that would transfer round, nitinol meshes, who is aware of how you’ll do it.
Proper. However one in every of our sketches was submarine and after we had constructed half a dozen mechanical prototypes, Simply executed horrific issues to pig intestines that we bought on the native market. My older brother, who’s a Lieutenant Colonel within the air pressure in a, in a flight surgeon with the 1 44 can also be an ER doc over at Kaiser Oakland.
He mentioned, you already know what, what for those who simply drank a bunch of water, might you swim as an alternative of crawl? And that basically helped to crystallize the Endiatx of, of in the present day, proper? We’re a quad copter submarines. It’s principally a drone that you simply management, however I’ll let you know one factor. I can’t wait till I can put two cameras on this factor.
Trigger you already know, I wanna, I wish to get stereoscopic imaginative and prescient and, and swim round inside a large affected person’s abdomen. Proper. How cool would that be?
Abate De Mey: Yeah, completely. And simply additionally like speak about what the issue house that you simply’re fixing is with this machine.
Torrey Smith: Proper. It is a good level.
Proper? And look, I have to be actually trustworthy right here. I simply honesty is I feel the premise for every thing else that follows proper. I’m right here as a result of I I’m satisfied that microscopic robotic surgeons in swarms will at some point deal with mind tumors and antibiotics means the EMD is to look inside or to go along with him. The DIA DIA is diagnostics to grasp what.
TX is shorthand for therapy to truly repair the issue. So I’m, I’m in it for the lengthy haul. I wish to construct the mind surgical procedure, micro robotic, however folks preserve coming again to me and saying, what’s your drawback? What’s your resolution? Do you have got product market match? And why ought to I write you a examine? Proper.
And to be trustworthy, these are actually good questions. So I even have a solution for our humble capsule bot for our shifting eyeball in his abdomen, which doesn’t even but have surgical instruments. The issue we’re tackling is that for those who ask a buddy of yours who may need some GI tract points, it could possibly be Crohn’s or Celiac’s could possibly be GI ache or bleeds.
We’ve extra pals in our, in our, in our private sphere than we would suppose which have needed to go in and take care of these issues that the usual of care normally ends with. Knocking somebody out with sedation and jamming an endoscope into their. To go searching and discover the ulcer or the polyp or the, the bleeding, the bleed web site or the lesion, proper?
Normally in some type, we have to jam a tube into your physique. And sadly, a typical affected person will let you know that it’s not on their first go to to the hospital. Like my very own sister is a nurse. She’s a head. She has glorious well being care and he or she got here down with Savage, abdomen ache. And I feel it’s like her fourth go to to the hospital.
And two months in three months in, she lastly will get the endoscopy. As a result of we have to do some gatekeeping. Proper? I can’t knock you out simply since you say you have got a bellyache, proper. In case you’re vomiting blood, I’m going to try this immediately. However for many sufferers first, we have to do some gatekeeping as a result of it’s costly, it’s dangerous.
We will, in addition to having points with sedation, we would truly poke a gap in you or tear you. Proper? And so first we’re going to strive you on a weight loss plan. You understand, possibly you’re consuming one thing that’s inflicting issues, then we’ll strive you on some antiacid medication. Perhaps, possibly that’ll remedy an issue. And on the finish of that course of, you’ve gotten to the purpose the place it’s time for an higher trade.
The irritating factor is that’s a ten minute process. Normally a health care provider’s bought their fingers on the affected person manipulating these instruments, 10 to fifteen minutes of lively visible inspection. So our query, our query to the world, to the funding group as nicely. However our query to the world is that this factor prices me 35 bucks to make in my dwelling.
Okay. We might in all probability make it for twenty-five bucks in, in some type of quantity. What if I might give a health care provider 10, 15, 20 minutes of lively, actual time inspection in a human abdomen, over a zoom name. You understand what, if that affected person whose stomach is aching might eat their dinner, however skip their breakfast, skip espresso, drink some heat water within the morning to kind of rinse out the goo.
And like I’ve executed 14 instances drink a pair pints of water at lunchtime swallow a robotic. Yeah. Actively examine the within of your abdomen visually in actual time. And what if we might try this tremendous low-cost? Proper. You understand, I can present you the predicate for this world, which might be the wonderful PillCam.
This was developed by a bunch of Israelis known as given imaging or GI for brief and given created in 1997, the capsule digicam, a passive platform to examine the Git. And the one problem is that up to now this stuff don’t transfer round they usually fell right into a little bit of an uncanny valley of like a one possibly, possibly one to three% use case.
Which means as cool as capsule cams are, they don’t do far more. And it’s all after the actual fact. So that they’re, they’re utilized in.
Abate De Mey: Yeah, to not point out it’s just a few days, if something, for it to lastly come again by the whole system and you may truly view the video on there.
Torrey Smith: Proper. And our purpose is simply to make use of that platform as a predicate to principally say, Hey, let’s make a transfer.
Let’s begin to put instruments on them and let’s make them tremendous low-cost. Proper. So if, if I might construct this for 25 bucks, however promote it for the $500 {that a} PillCam capsule. However prevent $15,000 of all this different medical expense. That looks like an enormous alternative, proper? I imply, actually, my purpose is no matter a affected person or an insurers and prices is, you already know, nonetheless many the visits that was the hospital, regardless of the sedation, the anesthesiologist price, no matter med gadgets have been used to assist the occasion.
After which lastly the endoscope itself, both disposable or. Or autoclaved or rinsed out after which doubtlessly carrying an an infection threat, no matter that price was. I wish to do that very same job for one tenth of the price, both to the affected person or to the supplier. Proper. That’s that’s, that’s the purpose. Let’s simply do it manner higher.
Manner, sooner, manner cheaper for an acceptable indication to be used.
Abate De Mey: Yeah, but it surely sounds just like the. Your machine is taking what the, what that capsule bot is. After which including much more options to it, like actuation, like wi-fi transmission. How are you going to take the costs of that, which is presently 500 in a quite simple system after which minimize it down whereas including a lot extra.
Torrey Smith: Positive. Properly, let’s let’s try this after which make it possible for I wish to give some credit score to a bunch of Chinese language people that tremendous engineers, AnX Robotics. I imagine that’s how you’ll name it with the Navicam. Who’re truly shifting capsule digicam’s round utilizing exterior magnetic actuation. So capsule cameras are beginning to transfer and I wish to give credit score the place credit score is due there.
And I’ll communicate to that a bit of bit, $500 is the reimbursement code that the corporate would receives a commission, that the OEM would receives a commission for the product. Their price of products goes to be one thing beneath that. Proper. After which that’s how they get, you already know, some quantity of. My purpose is to get a price of products at 25 bucks.
After which, you already know, we’ll promote it for no matter is suitable. However let’s distinguish the world of passive capsule cameras to the lively world of endoscopes, the place we are literally shifting round in actual time as a result of the world of capsule cameras hasn’t but achieved a billion {dollars} of, of like market share per yr.
Proper. It’s it’s a, it’s a comparatively area of interest use case for passive. Whereas the world of endoscopes is definitely $67 billion per yr. If we’ll get endoscopes which can be slid into the human physique, it’s this big market. Now let’s, let’s minimize that down a bit of bit. Let’s have a look at the GI tract, proper? That’s about $9 billion.
And that’s, that’s actually the place we’re going to focus. About 50% of that’s massive gut, however the basic culinary. About 25% of it’s the abdomen with the stability being the esophagus elements of the duodenum simply after the abdomen after which the rest of the small bowel. So our purpose truly is simply to enter the abdomen and we’re truly not competing with capsule cameras.
We’re competing with endoscopes. We’re competing with that lively process that a health care provider works on in actual time. And if I simply mentioned {that a} Chinese language firm is doing magnetic actuation of capsules, I higher provide you with some differentiation on what we’re doing, as a result of we’re primarily direct opponents with that firm who, who we’ve got large respect for.
I wish to be very clear with that. The differentiation can be, I wish to present you the whole finish diotic system. Properly, it’s capsule purchased every of our little motors price 40 cents. Their mobile phone vibrator motors, simply put a propeller on it. And we have to discuss to the robotic with a USB dongle. We use a low frequency radio.
That’s how we talk by human tissue. That is our system, proper? We don’t have a large magnetic machine that you simply’ve bought to lie within or Ana, and also you don’t have to be on the hospital to get this process. We will in a single day this to you. You possibly can pair this over a zoom name or a zoom like name, you already know, it’ll need to be HIPAA.
We’ll in all probability have one thing of a customized platform there, however to make use of zoom calls as type of ubiquitous manner to make use of a video name, proper buy video name today, that is our system. And I need our system to be 25 bucks. And I need our system to have the ability to perform anyplace on or off the planet. Proper.
A refugee camp you already know, like a creating nation, possibly a ahead deployed navy. Space you could possibly use it within the hospital and they’re going to get utilized in hospitals will in all probability start this journey in hospitals. However to kind of show a degree we not too long ago, whereas we have been engaged on a mechanical engineering problem, just like the buoyancy, the float capability of our capsule, we bought within the cockpit of evaluation at three 10 over Watsonville, California, and clawed our manner as much as 11,000 toes and push the nostril right into a ballistic trajectory.
Ultimately pointing nearly straight down. Simply to get a few seconds of weightlessness, proper? As a result of this platform works even higher in outer house. Proper. So the purpose right here is to create a hardcore type of telemedicine initially, specializing in what I feel is probably the most acceptable market, in all probability abdomen.
After which let’s simply see how far we will go along with it. Proper?
Abate De Mey: Yeah. So, after which it appears like what you’re suggesting is that this doesn’t even actually have to be utilized by a medical skilled at the very least long run.
Torrey Smith: Okay. So quick time period, I wish to give a health care provider a gastroenterologist to be particular a one for one alternative of an endoscope for an acceptable indication to be used.
So let’s have a look at three issues, a lesion in your abdomen, an ulcer, a a abdomen bleed, one thing like that. These are issues that we will search for visually, and we. Pretty quickly. Have the ability to let you know if that does or doesn’t exist in your abdomen. In order that’s going to be our first step, proper?
Abate De Mey: And that is remotely operated by a health care provider.
Torrey Smith: Properly, that’s the enjoyable half, proper? As a result of proper now, the one manner for a health care provider to carry out that examination is to have you ever on a hospital mattress, knocked out all of your garments off with tubes jammed in each a part of your physique. After which. That’s a non-trivial second in time to carry each the physician and the affected person to, proper.
You possibly can think about lots of, lots of procedures, like this have been delayed throughout the time of COVID as a result of, you already know, except you’re actively dying, we don’t need physician affected person contact. We don’t need sufferers within the hospital that may contract or unfold COVID. Proper. So like you have got all these procedures getting delayed.
However let’s be clear. We’re not a COVID firm. We simply recognize how COVID has proven mild on the worth of telemedicine. And so to your, to your level and your query. Sure, it’s distant, proper? We’ve managed these over web protocol already. One among our youngest interns was the one which pulled that off.
He’s now at Stanford, finding out cognitive neuroscience. Science and synthetic intelligence. Sensible. Proper. However yeah, no, we wish to, we wish to management these over web protocol wherever potential. And simply, simply principally, you already know, step a bit of bit additional into that future that all of us need.
Abate De Mey: Yeah, no, it’s very fascinating.
And likewise you touched on earlier about this problem of elevating cash for what you’re needing, what what you are promoting targets are proper now and what the present use case is. Proper. Versus what a number of the bigger firm visions are sooner or later. So how has that affected your selections?
Torrey Smith: Properly, I’d love to like to talk to that a bit of bit, you already know, so, you already know, if anybody’s listening and also you’ve bought an fascinating thought.
Actually that is the primary time I name myself a co-founder it’s the primary firm I’ve ever named and we selected a {hardware} enabled FDA regulated firm. Which primarily from an investing standpoint is like two very highly effective slaps to the face. However anybody who’s founding an organization must be ready for a fundraising expertise that’s comparable in problem to sure issues like stepping into Harvard or Yale, proper?
Like, like I feel Harvard has one thing alongside the traces of like a 5% acceptance fee and. And but it’s an incredible college from what I’m advised, proper? It’s, it’s a worthy problem to tackle, proper? And this is the reason you in all probability apply to multiple multiple superior college fundraising for anybody goes to be on common a 1% sure.
Fee, proper? Which means it’s worthwhile to get a whole bunch of nos earlier than you get a handful of yeses and also you shut across the funding. Proper. And that is one thing. I fortunately was ready for this actuality by founder Institute, they have been very clear about how troublesome and punishing this this surroundings is. However the factor that I recognize about how troublesome fundraising is for everybody is that founding is a spot for passionate founders.
It’s a spot for passionate folks. Imagine deeply in to the very core that there’s one thing good of their thought. Proper? You don’t need folks founding corporations who’ve some type of backup plan, proper. As a result of if in case you have a straightforward, cheap backup plan, you’re in all probability going to take it when issues begin to appear arduous.
Proper. So I, I’ve a spreadsheet, you already know, it’s one in every of my a number of tabs. That reveals one thing on the order of like 300 frontier well being tech enterprise capital funds that we’ve pitched and hundreds of angel traders that we pitched and we’ve bought a handful of yeses. And so fundraising is tough for anybody.
{Hardware} regulation goes to make it a bit of bit tougher. Nevertheless it additionally means you get to fulfill the folks lively in that house, which is a big. Proper. So I by no means, ever needed to develop into an entrepreneur. I simply needed to have the ability to design tiny robots. That job didn’t appear to be accessible. So I noticed I needed to go make it proper.
If, if I used to be attempting to design an organization for an entrepreneur, it will be, you already know, some type of telephone app. Proper. However come on, like, that is cool. It even says antibiotics on it. That’s nice. Telephones are nice. I like and respect what we will do with ones and zeros, however there’s a world on the market that goes a bit of deeper.
Proper? I like that we will analyze metadata and study issues that weren’t obvious to us earlier, however I’m truly right here for sufferers. Who’re getting a prognosis that may be a sure demise sentence, proper? And I’m simply attempting to say for the, for, for that affected person inhabitants and for the docs who deal with them, the oncologist, the surgeons, that there’s a group of passionate hackers which can be attempting with each fiber of their being to make a brand new world of {hardware} worthy of the world’s finest software program.
In order that collectively we will get. And do one thing about it, proper? Like the primary capsule digicam was swallowed in 1997. It’s been 25 years, the quarter of a century. It’s time to take the subsequent step.
Abate De Mey: Yeah. And this product is absolutely pushing the frontiers of the particular {hardware} growth too. I imply, if I take into consideration the opposite very, very small micro robots pondering a really tiny drones and such, however not, not lots which can be working inside.
One thing as wild as a human physique, that’s heat. moist, acidic every thing.
Torrey Smith: Positive, certain. So now’s time to present some credit score. All proper. As a result of we actually are standing on the shoulders of giants right here. Proper? So to begin with, PillCam given imaging, they created the idea of swallowable digital capsules, proper?
These are the founding fathers. Not too long ago our pals over in China are, are, are taking this to the subsequent degree and saying, let’s make a transfer actively, however right here’s the place the actual differentiate differentiation is available in capital tools. And the place is that this process carried out? Let’s give some credit score additional extra to 2 wonderful people who find themselves bridging the worlds of academia and likewise like superior founders in their very own.
Proper. That’d be Dr. . From the max Planck Institute and Pietro bell Dastyari based mostly in Italy. These guys are doing wonderful issues with microscopic, really microscopic shifting robots normally utilizing some type of exterior magnetic actuation for, for issues that, you already know, kind of begin to strategy the scale of the top of a pin and even smaller.
After which Dr. Dr. Valdez road is doing wonderful work. With with gentle robotics. These guys are superior. Prefer it they’ve been variety sufficient to kind of take me beneath their wing at instances. And, you already know, I actually look as much as them as like my heroes. If we have been to talk to the differentiation that NDR is taking pictures for the first one can be to decouple the affected person from the hospital go to.
I feel, and the humorous factor, that’s not the explanation we based the corporate. I feel that’s simply one thing we ended up stumbling over is that we determined we might put all of the tech onto the robotic itself and thus the smaller the robotic will get, the extra locations within the physique will have the ability to go, however we’ll by no means basically require the affected person essentially to be tied to a hospital go to.
And that’s, I feel the place you begin to. Faucet into the type of factor that Peter Diamandis over at X prize challenges, founders to do, which is D monetize dematerialized go 10 instances sooner, higher and cheaper, proper? We’re not in search of incremental enhancements right here. We’re attempting to do a complete sea change.
Like let’s flip this iceberg the wrong way up in order that ultimately after we get this proper, we will begin to hear tales from sufferers and docs that say, Hey, you truly. Change the sport right here, such as you’ve executed one thing good that that’s the second we’re ready for at antibiotics.
Abate De Mey: Yeah. And it there’s positively, additionally appears like the kind of procedures that possibly folks can be hesitant to enter the physician’s workplace to do.
In reality, they’re in all probability hesitant to enter physician’s workplace in any respect. So this might make it extra prone to have this truly be serviced for someone or possibly to catch issues early. Is that, is that a part of the marketing strategy?
Torrey Smith: The cheaper we make it the extra accessible we make it. The sooner on common, statistically, we’re going to catch illness, proper?
And this illness is an fascinating phrase as a result of it actually means dis-ease. It means the physique not in its pure state, proper. In our pure state. Our physique is wonderful at sustaining therapeutic, catching little tiny cancers, and, you already know, killing them off of the immune. The physique is wonderful. And the immune system is that may be a deep dive.
In case you, if you wish to study extra in regards to the immune system, proper, that will get far more sophisticated. The extra you find out about it. The underside line is after we let issues go uncaught and untreated for lengthy intervals of time, you begin to run out of choices. Proper. You understand, we misplaced Steve jobs to pancreatic most cancers and pancreatic most cancers is such a, such a horrible one as a result of.
To begin with, it’s type of arduous to diagnose, you already know, it, if I used to be to attempt to scream you in the present day for pancreatic most cancers, we might do it with a type of endoscopy, proper? Perhaps a complete physique MRI possibly would catch a lump in your pancreas. One other manner can be to jam a tube down your throat. Denner gentle Magus into your abdomen, out the bottom of your abdomen, by the pyloric valve.
And into your small bowel, the primary section, we might then go up your bile duct, which empties in, at that location and go up by your bile duct till we discover the pancreas and possibly do some focused ultrasound there to search for lumps from, from an in depth vary, proper. Or possibly acquire some fluid samples.
That process that I’ve simply described is just not a process you give to six billion folks. Proper. That’s that’s not acceptable. At a affected person inhabitants degree, we, we will’t try this for the usual of care. And so sadly, pancreatic most cancers will get caught at stage 4. Proper. So my query is, what for those who’ve bought a bellyache and also you match the invoice for a capsule bot, possibly you match the invoice for our subsequent product, which we wish to name capsule surgeon.
And also you swallow a type of dangerous boys, your physician drives round your abdomen and says, Mr. Smith, do you drink lots of espresso? Trigger I’m seeing an fascinating little lesion right here that type of makes me suppose manner an excessive amount of espresso. Proper. And and, and, and also you’re like, yeah, bought it. And so they’re like, glorious.
I feel we all know what to do. I’m going to, I’m going to prescribe you this remedy sit back on this one dietary factor. You’re going to be okay. Nonetheless, whereas we’re. Let me simply drive right down to the bottom of your abdomen. May you are taking one other swig of heat water, heat water that triggers a bolus occasion. The abdomen opens up and now we’re admitted into the duodenum or the duodenum.
I’m nonetheless nonetheless engaged on pronunciation and I’m working with worldwide docs. So typically they get completely different, however right here we’re within the first section of small gut and we see the bile duct, the bile duct is simply this little gap. And so I simply turned to level it and. Let’s advance our digicam up.
The bile duct, executed a bit of versatile inventory. That’s a reasonably cheap factor to request a bunch of Silicon valley engineers. We will try this. Let’s put a face to ultrasound array round that digicam. And you already know, I’d wish to name out Dr. Farah modification. Who’s working for butterfly networks proper now on a handheld ultrasound factor as a result of her work at Stanford on swallowable digital capsules that do ultrasound is wonderful.
And I wish to give some credit score to her for that, however the fundamental thought. We simply inspected your abdomen and located you had an ulcer, however in 5 minutes we will display screen you for pancreatic most cancers, proper? Let’s snake this little probe up your bile duct. Let’s take a look for seen lesions within the duct itself. And let’s, you already know, let’s zap some ultrasound and see if we see any bizarre lumps.
Proper. After which,
Abate De Mey: so is that this one thing that may presently occur proper now with this product?
Torrey Smith: I imply, what we’re doing is we’re attempting to create the platform, the muse, proper. Let me see if I can get. Let’s see. Okay. Oh my native metropolis, some, a utility payments, however I’m gonna use this for a test it out. So that you’ve bought, there you go.
You see the little thrusters, you see the electrical motors, proper? We’re making a, a, a platform that may transfer round in 5 dimensions, that means XYZ, after which roll about two extra axes. It’s a quad copter. What would you do with the magic college bus? Proper? The purpose is to begin placing surgical instruments, needles.
Let’s do drug supply, tissue sampling, proper? Let’s simply do every thing we will till we bought a household of merchandise which can be altering, altering affected person outcomes on the inhabitants degree, altering affected person expenditures on the inhabitants degree, increasing. Till you possibly can handle the wildly disparate affected person populations of the world.
Proper. You understand a typical American with first rate well being protection goes to have one final result, however there are nations the place you already know, within the creating world the place somebody may need to get onto an airplane to fly to an endoscopy clinic, this all modifications when you possibly can swallow a capsule. And if in case you have an web connection, let your physician management it over a telephone connection.
Properly, or let your native physician management it instantly. And never even want the web. Proper. We wish to be sure that each choices can be found. In order that’s, that’s, that’s type of a, that’s, that’s type of, a part of what we wish to do is simply first let’s construct a shifting eyeball within the abdomen. I feel there’s a job to do there.
There’s a giant market to disrupt. So we’re very excited from a medical standpoint. We’re additionally very prolonged from a excited, from a enterprise standpoint. However then let’s simply preserve going, proper. You understand, we, we’ve got, we’ve got idea sketches and design work executed that that takes us all the best way right down to the rice grain dimension.
I’m undecided that this man goes to have the ability to push this tech past rice grain dimension. I feel sooner or later, if we will get, if we will make this actual, if we will show to the world that this has large profit and worth so as to add to our group If we will get a few merchandise to market just a few generations and actually present that it’s right here and it’s not going anyplace, you already know, ultimately the instances goes to return to step out of the best way and let different folks take over the reins.
Proper. However within the meantime, we’ve, we’ve, we could very nicely have created the regulatory framework for stuff like this to occur. And the framework with which, you already know, insurance coverage corporations would work out how you can interact this sort of know-how. Like we’re pleased to do the fundamental legwork with some humble first.
Abate De Mey: Yeah. And will you maintain up the 2 items once more? You had the, the capsule and the the receiver.
Torrey Smith: Yeah, there we go.
Abate De Mey: So the receiver is exterior the physique after which that communicates over wi-fi frequency to the capsule itself.
Torrey Smith: So, you already know, folks ask like, you already know, are utilizing wifi or Bluetooth.
These are comparatively excessive frequency radio, like very excessive information. While you’re punching by human tissue, which is principally punching by water greater frequencies are likely to get attenuated and kind of they, they get absorbed by water very effectively. So what we do is we take a trick from the U S Navy and we simply begin reducing the frequency till these wavelengths begin to slip by water a lot simpler.
So proper now we’re working about 915 megahertz. Proper now we function within the Laura band, which is. This a packer band accessible for multi-use. We will certainly tweak the frequency a bit of bit, however backside line isn’t round 900 megahertz. You begin having the ability to punch by a few toes of water and nonetheless have sufficient of a bandwidth that with a bit of little bit of fancy software program engineering and firmware, and possibly some onboard picture processing that the Venn diagram begins to have some over.
In order that that’s type of the place we’re proper now.
Abate De Mey: After which that is importing video information over that bandwidth.
Torrey Smith: That’s proper. And you already know, I’ve a, I’ve a public YouTube channel the place we simply put movies of us testing, swallowing our fish tank movies. You possibly can see the, you already know, the, the airplane video or, you already know, we put the nostril down.
We’re, we’re attempting to be open with our journey as a result of look, human lives are fascinating. Proper. And after we begin to deal with hundreds of thousands of sufferers, issues get bizarre. Proper. And I really feel that it’s critically vital for us to inform the world that look, we’re doing every thing we will to attempt to create one thing new and superior and good that helps folks and is best than the outdated manner.
And we’re prepared to share our journey as we do it. Trigger I simply need folks to know that. We’re basically keen about this, this we’re right here as a result of we’ve misplaced members of the family ourselves. We’re not right here to revenue. You’re off of your sickness. We’re truly right here to attempt to make it less expensive for you.
Proper. And, and I really feel just like the, by being open about that you already know, that’s, that’s the start of that dialog and that’s an extended dialog that, that belief will take years to construct. Proper. And, and, and will take weeks to do. Proper. So we’re, we’re dedicated to the lengthy haul. However to type of reply your query, you already know, you touched on what sort of video high quality.
Oh my goodness. In case you have a look at my video high quality proper now, it’s, it’s horrible. It’s nearly like snigger you out of the room. Horrible. Once we did our first in-human assessments again in June of 2020 on that sofa behind me we had a 48 by 48 grid of grey scale pixels. Proper now we’re as much as 160 by 160 with colour.
Proper now we’re pushing about 5 frames per second, which for anybody that does like on-line gaming 5 FPS is like, you you’d go insane for those who have been attempting to play a web based recreation with that body fee. Proper. Proper now we’ve got a fundamental Huffman compression algorithm going, which simply means like a really small quantity of compression.
We haven’t even executed like JPEG ranges of compression. You possibly can kind of consider us as slinging. By means of a really small pipeline of, of bandwidth. However welcome to our on a regular basis world. You understand, these are the issues that we’re chewing on and getting our butts kicked on day by day. One of many causes we’re excited to achieve out in the present day and share a bit of little bit of the journey is that, you already know, we’re truly in search of passionate software program engineers for those that write embedded firmware of their, of their sleep.
You understand, we’re in search of folks that can take an SPGA and get into Verilog or, or one of many different applications. And, you already know, code code a compression algorithm, not utilizing drag and drop modules if another person program. However I wish to see somebody that claims, I can write a JPEG compression algorithm on a SPGA in a single tenth of the reminiscence than anybody else that’s going to impress me.
Proper. We’re not in search of the person who says, yeah, I’ll, I’ll simply drag and drop different modules. Different folks have executed and hand that to you. Come on. Let’s have some self-respect right here. Like we want passionate folks, people who find themselves simply as passionate as we’re to make this factor actual. And we do swallow these robots ourselves.
You understand, we’re very keen about this.
Abate De Mey: Is that the onboarding problem,
Torrey Smith: you already know, actually early in an organization, I’d say the foundations are in all probability a bit of bit extra. I feel like proper now we’ve not too long ago begun talks. We imagine we’ve got a lead investor for, for our seed spherical. So we’re, we’re very excited to maneuver from the angel part to the enterprise capital backed part.
We’ve, we’ve got just a few superior VCs which can be backed us by the best way, Lantana bio gentle in Mexico. We flew down and pitched them in Spanish and and made good pals they usually put cash into our angel spherical they usually wish to be part of our seed spherical loyal VC out of Canada. That that’s our arrange.
Really, these are our largest traders. After which you already know, one other BC going BC Scout’s put a bit of bit of cash into us, however the remaining is principally about 50% of it as angel traders. However that that’s a part of the journey although, is developing with an thought compelling sufficient, you already know, to get you right into a room.
However then lifelike sufficient to, to, to make writing a examine is sensible that that’s not going to be trivial for anybody.
Abate De Mey: Yeah. And so earlier you confirmed the development of your prototypes the place the primary one appears to be like one thing like a shoe sized. Yeah. There it’s. It’s like a shoe sized prototype.
Torrey Smith: You see the little propellers in there, proper?
Yeah. I see them. It’s a quad copter, proper. That provides you the power to go ahead and again. To have the ability to flip or, you already know, or pitch up and pitch down. Curiously sufficient, we will additionally rotate on entry actually quick utilizing the propulsion, which we predict goes to be fascinating for tissue excision, proper.
For, for tissue sampling. Th that’s the enjoyable half is we mentioned, we wish to transfer freely in a fluid quantity with no {qualifications}. This isn’t a ahead backward recreation. That is, that is like, give me that Oculus. Okay. I’m within the affected person. What for those who’re not the physician, proper? What for those who’re the affected person or what for those who’re, you already know, a member of the family or another person we’ll placed on some AR goggles and see a glowing hologram of the affected person’s anatomy inside their physique in actual time?
Proper? That is the stuff that we’re going to be unlocking, you already know, hopefully over the subsequent 6, 12, 18 months. It’s simply tremendous thrilling. Actually, I, that is probably the most enjoyable I’ve ever had engaged on.
Abate De Mey: Oh, yeah. And it’s fascinating to speak about, is there a battery and an IMU in there additionally like what’s occurring?
Torrey Smith: Yeah. So, so for these of, I assume, most individuals on robotics podcasts are gonna know inertial, inertial sensing, proper. Proper now we’re utilizing an off the shelf coin cell battery. It is a lithium ion battery rechargeable liquid electrolyte. The explanation we’re utilizing this proper now for our prototypes.
It’s primarily simply that of all of the batteries we might discover off the shelf and available. This was the one one which in any sense, approached the shape issue of a capsule digicam and will deal with driving for electrical motors at their, at their most RPM. Like we, we put a really heavy present demand on our battery.
Our subsequent step utilizing a number of the cash we’re elevating. Is to go to a customized battery as a result of for us, we don’t want rechargeability and we’d actually don’t have to be concerned on the planet of like rising dendrites and, you already know, ever like puffing up a cell after you’ve used it too many instances or no matter, we solely want this factor to work, however work nicely for 10, 15, 20.
Okay. So our battery chemistry might be going to be the one use, lithium main cell chemistry. In all probability lots like an Energizer escort, lithium battery. I’ve truly used these in earlier medical gadgets and by no means had an issue with them. So yeah, off the shelf battery proper now it’s off the shelf chips, proper?
So for those who have a look at the, for those who have a look at the parts which can be populating this, this versatile. The digicam’s from OmniVision. I feel that prices like 70 cents. We bought an PGA, we’ve bought a bit of CC, 13, 10 microcontroller and radio combo. I imply, it’s, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a really humble first product, however imagine me, and I’ll be candid right here.
Look, I mentioned earlier within the, within the, in, in, in our little assembly that, you already know, I suffered. Imposter syndrome like anybody else? I’m not a PhD. I don’t have a level in electrical engineering, pc engineering. I’m a knucklehead. I’m a mechanical designer, used to name myself an aerospace engineer. So who do I feel I’m attempting to discovered this firm?
I’ll let you know what, after I go up and down Silicon valley, I see much more folks, lots smarter than myself, promoting advertisements on the.
Or doing kind of, not precisely swinging for the fences, with the {hardware} there they’re constructing or the markets that they’re serving. Proper. You understand, I see lots of cheap enterprise propositions, however the majority of sensible folks I do know are trapped with golden handcuffs, promoting advertisements on the web, or type of enabling shopper merchandise that don’t really want to.
And it’s not my place to guage, however I’ll let you know that I refuse to be ashamed that I’m not excellent as a result of I do suppose that the best we’re engaged on and the world, we will unlock this new commonplace of care. I feel that’s worthy of sacrifice. Proper. So I began throw myself onto that fireplace and I’m hoping.
That by swallowing these robots ourselves, and by slowly successful over the easiest docs on the planet. We’ve bought the chief of GI at Mayo clinic, primary, gastroenterologist on the planet. I’m answering to him now trigger we requested him to hitch our board of administrators. Proper. He’s my boss, primarily. We’re asking folks to assist us make this.
Proper. And so w we don’t wish to, we don’t wish to brush that beneath the rug. I need, I wish to take my limitations personally, and our limitations as an organization, and truly wave them round, you already know, let’s, let’s put that on our flag and this wave it round and say, Hey, we’re not excellent, however we see a chance to do issues manner higher.
We do have the power as a result of we’re fairly scrappy. We’re very artistic and dealing. We expect that what we’re holding in our hand proper now could be a know-how demonstrator worthy of luring within the best minds from Silicon valley and past from manner past, proper. To do one thing really particular, you already know, that’s, to me, that’s what antibiotics means to me.
That’s my honest hope. It’s type of like my prayer to the mental group. Please come assist us do one thing profoundly significant. Proper. That’s how I’d like to border it.
Abate De Mey: And the potential impression of this product is it’s huge. And the, the mission assertion can also be is that it’s positively very admirable.
Torrey Smith: We’ll let you know what it’s founding isn’t going to be a trivial journey. Proper. You understand, alongside the best way, we now are on our second CTO, who we’re extremely proud to have our first CTO. We moved over to the advisory board. Dan. Simply, fingers down with probably the most sensible folks I’ve ever met. It’s simply satisfied he must get a PhD over from WPI.
So he’s again simply joined the PhD program and earlier than he left and as soon as we signed the lease settlement with the, my firm would hire his home. So we, you already know, we’re, we’re persevering with our scrappy or scrappy journey for now. We determined to tape $2 to the wall. Trigger I challenged him to a $1 wager, which is.
We’re going to IPO and the Audix earlier than he will get that PhD. And that’s a, that’s a enjoyable problem between expensive pals, proper. And that’s, that’s the type of dedication we’ve got to this imaginative and prescient is that look, if we had some superior exit alternative, that basically made sense for lots of various events. I’m, I’m, I’m all for it.
That’s nice. However our P our plan and our path and our dream takes us by. By means of capsule surgeon by micro surgeon, proper? It takes us from a storage to a warehouse, to the Mayo clinic, cadaver lab, the place we’ve got been and hopefully quickly to a bit of constructing over by our native Costco to, we will put the optics on the entrance finish.
From there, it’ll go to a much bigger constructing. You understand, we’re going to construct these right here. You understand, this can be a very small machine. You understand, retails for a reasonably large sum of money. And so it’s acceptable to fabricate regionally. You understand, it’s not like an workplace chair that wouldn’t make lots of sense, however this does, we’re very critical about constructing this factor and making it actual.
And simply chewing on these troublesome moments. Step-by-step as a result of, you already know, with out adversity, nothing actually tastes good if you lastly have that.
Abate De Mey: And so proper now, you’re sitting there with a reasonably, fairly nice prototype in your fingers. It’s very practical. It truly may be swallowed and it truly can display seemingly the complete capabilities of what it’s worthwhile to do.
Perhaps barring some okay. Video fee and like some software program enhancements and possibly miniature, rising a bit additional. However what are the subsequent steps earlier than you’re truly capable of drop this in the marketplace and begin producing that cash after which being. To speed up the enterprise,
Torrey Smith: however I can let you know one factor.
We expect that the bodily dimension let me, let me go right here. Let’s see what to bought zero shift over to metric as a result of we’re attempting to be civilized in the present day. So I gonna measure this Odie proper now. So I’m, I’m approaching simply over 13 millimeters. Nearly 50 caliber. And if we have a look at a PillCam, you already know, a typical PillCam.
No, that’s about 11.3, you already know, so we’re, we’re a bit of bit fatter than a capsule digicam. Let me see right here. Yeah. It’s about 26 millimeters lengthy. We’re, we’re a bit of fatter than most capsule cameras. We’re truly shorter than a few of them. So we truly really feel that we’ve got an MVP on this type issue if we select.
The explanation for that’s which you could get. PillCam arbitrarily small and you’ll at all times have a fraction of your sufferers who refuse this pockets. We simply don’t really feel comfy. Proper. You understand, lots of people have points with capsules. Some folks may be a bit of irked about electronics, which is an inexpensive factor.
We don’t want one hundred percent of individuals to have the ability to swallow this. So I don’t have to drive it down to 1 tenth of its dimension to perform that. If half of the individuals who see this refuse to. However we create a device that a health care provider can attain for half of the time. That’s a 25% use case, which is 25 instances the market share at pillbox based mostly on the uncanny valley had fallen into.
So the enjoyable factor about being a CEO, even when let’s be trustworthy, I’m a lowercase CEO is I get to decide on the place the goalpost is. Proper? And so our purpose is to not make the last word. However to make the primary product rapidly that may truly go do job and disrupt a market and basically transfer the transfer the ball ahead.
So we predict that capsule bot goes to be that MVP. So the cash we’re elevating proper now helps us make. Basically the identical fundamental dimension and form, however work within the methods the place this doesn’t fairly work nicely sufficient. I would like some optics. I wish to put a fish eye lens. I would like some filters. I’ve bought a bunch of optical Hayes and glare to take care of.
I would like impartial buoyancy, which we predict if we strip the metallic out of this case and go along with like a polymer case, single use battery, I feel that that’s that’s in regards to the Delta we’re in search of. Proper? So the purpose is. Shut the cash we’ve got on the desk. Hopefully try this earlier than Christmas. After which go forward and over the subsequent six to 9.
Flip this into an actual MVP, flip this right into a product that does a job each single time. And which means I don’t need a blue display screen of demise. Okay. I need it to pair. I need it to have a dependable connection. I need the optical high quality to be first rate and I needed to do with the physician asset to can we’re going to show that it really works utilizing what you name IRB or institutional evaluate board trials.
That is the place you do a handful of sufferers right here in. Perhaps over just a few months, it provides as much as like 25 sufferers, one thing like that, some within the U S possibly some exterior of the us, some wholesome distribution. We proved that it really works to ourselves utilizing IRB trials. After which we start FDA trial. And proper now our regulatory specialists are saying, they suppose it’s going to be one thing on the order of a couple of hundred sufferers at a few medical websites all over the world to, to show that this factor is prepared for the U S.
So my purpose is initially, you already know, I I’m like basic Elon Musk time. Proper. You understand, I I’m manner too formidable. And I usually see my numbers, my numbers slip I’m responsible of that. However my purpose is to be promoting this factor within the U S market someday in 2023, in all probability in all probability near the top, to be trustworthy.
Abate De Mey: Superior. Properly, Torrey. Thanks a lot for talking with us in the present day.
Torrey Smith: It’s an actual pleasure, and we’re so grateful to hitch this group and, and likewise have the ability to discover ways to profit from it ourselves. Proper? Trigger the, the folks in your podcast are wonderful. The tales are wonderful and, you already know, frankly, we’re all fascinated by what’s happening and that’s all for in the present day.
Â
transcript
tags: c-Well being-Drugs, cx-Well being-Drugs, Micro, podcast, Prototype, Robotics know-how, Sensing, Service Skilled Medical Different, startup
Abate De Mey
Robotics and Go-To-Market Skilled
